Just now I perceive that letters must be posted first thing early. A crucial figure in the transition between the Classical and Romantic eras in Classical music, he remains one of the most recognized and … I mean she… I know that in 1811, a year before the Immortal Beloved letter, she, was not sleeping with her husband anymore. Immortal Beloved. STEBLIN: After the second world war, the communists came into the Czech Republic and descendants of Josephine – of her son Fritz – fled and they took with them 14 letters that they had in Beethoven's hand. It is completely coated in dark chocolate and is decorated with gold leaf. Written by Smoothhoney1265 Plot Summary | Plot Synopsis He HAD loved her before, so he might have loved her still in 1812. STEBLIN: Exactly. And there's some other passages in his diary where around the birth of Minona where he says, ‘Oh, I will have to leave Vienna.’. And so I think what happened is that instead of going on to Karlsbad – as she had originally planned – and that's why in Beethoven's letter you have that statement, ‘We will probably see each other in K.’ But no, I think that she then sent him a letter saying, ‘Oh, I have to change my plans. Whom did Beethoven love so passionately? Well, we know that Beethoven knew Josephine since 1799 so five years before would disqualify her. This obsession was evident in the way –after his death-- his body was studied, in a most meticulous autopsy. With this in mind, the questions of certain researchers leave me wondering: - Did he know one or many women, or did he not know any? And Josephine wanted to go again to Karlsbad. IMMORTAL BELOVED Beethoven’s Love Letters On This Page The Immortal Beloved Letters The Early Candidates for the Immortal Beloved The Later Candidates Recent Theories Letters to Unknown Women Once upon a time in old Vienna, the great composer Ludwig von Beethoven passed away quietly at his home. The descriptions of the appearance of his internal organs were carefully made and recorded. It was written to an unknown woman who Beethoven simply called his … And, Therese, in her memoirs talks about Minona as being different from the other children, being very stark, strong in her personality so much that we called her ‘the governess.’. Immortal is described by the author as “a novel inspired by real events”. After the death of the composer (Gary Oldman), director Bernard Rose lets admirer and secretary Anton Schindler (Jeroen Krabbé) look for the anonymous lover. The possible years are therefore: 1795, 1801, 1807, 1812 or 1818. After 1818, he would have had charge of his nephew Karl, when it is not at all likely that he would have written such a letter. But, in this case, why not? So, I contacted the health agency, the Gesundheitsamt – they're responsible for grave sites and found out what I could. Copyright © 2021 Daniel Adam Maltz. Our guest, musicologist Dr. Rita Steblin, finally identifies the correct woman. Elise – the mystery woman in Beethoven’s life, is still an unsolved mystery. MALTZ: So up to this point, we've discussed Beethoven longing after Josephine for years, a surprise encounter where they spent the night together in Prague and the Immortal Beloved letter that Beethoven never sent, where he pleaded for Josephine to find a way for them to be together. Dr. Steblin, thank you for joining me. In it, he writes of his unconditional love and devotion to someone he refers to as his Unsterbliche Geliebte, or Immortal Beloved. She was in her eighties in 1920 when she brought out the book. Second Question: Where was the Immortal Beloved letter written? I weep when I think you will probably only receive on Saturday the first news from me — as you too love — yet I love you stronger — but never hide yourself from me. To be more exact, Beethoven in fact wrote to 'The immortal loved one' and not 'The Immortal Beloved'. After his death in 1827, the following love letter was found amongst the personal papers of Ludwig van Beethoven, penned by the composer over the course of two days in July of 1812 while staying in Teplice. If someone has only read his diaries, his letters, his moral writings… He would consider such an act, a terrible dishonorable behavior. Beethoven is the reason why I fell in love with music. And I had heard that the grave site was up for sale. Beethoven) biographers are worried about this because practically none of the supposed women was ever addressed in this manner by Beethoven. I can only live, either altogether with you or not at all. Ludwig van Beethoven remained celibate for all of his life. Whether seducing regal followers or criticizing the ruling class, Beethoven made many enemies. Before, he did not live in Vienna, and he states the fact that he lives there in his letter. MALTZ: And so your theory or… you're saying that Fanny Giannatasio del Rio is simply substituting the other German verb, kennenlernen, which is just to get to know. He is referring to Vienna (in German, the initial is a 'W' for 'Wien') and no one has found a reason to dispute this. I mean her comment was that she overheard Beethoven's… well her father had asked Beethoven had he never met a woman that he would want to marry. Where I am, you are with me, with me and you, I shall arrange that I may live with you. You presented evidence that places Josephine in Baden around this time as well? And a lot of scholars in the 20th century claimed that this letter 'A' referred to the Immortal Beloved. 8:19. He never sent this letter. The apparently unsent letter was found in the composer's estate following his death, after which it remained in the hands of Anton Schindler until his death, was subsequently willed to his sister, and was sold by her in 1880 to the Berlin State Library, where it remai… I mean, maybe he thought there'd be this scandal about the paternity or he wanted to undertake a Große Handlung or something. Because she was still fertile, and all of her other earlier six children were conceived immediately after she'd slept with her first husband and then her second husband. The mystery during the years has been who the “Immortal beloved” is. But, I decided to look at the problem again from a new angle and to look at that word kennen and thought, okay, if you view it in the biblical sense of to know a woman, sleep with her. Oh, go on loving me — never doubt the faithfullest heart Of your belovedL Ever thine.Ever mine.Ever ours. A clue that would allow them to finally grasp the magnitude of the greatness of the man that had created such music and that had lived so intensely. STEBLIN: Well the name comes from Ossian, that Gaelic Bard, and appears in Goethe Sorrows of Young Werther, and is the daughter of a musician. The first is easy: "... my life in W. is now a miserable life...". Researchers have been divided as to whom was the intended recipient. So when did Josephine marry Stackelberg? MALTZ: The famously temperamental Beethoven never married, but, between July 6th and 7th in 1812, Beethoven wrote a three-part letter. So, in other words, he must have met this woman in Prague on the 3rd, because that's when he didn't keep his appointment. He was not having a spa treatment in this city of water. Why has the Beethoven Immortal Beloved letter captured imaginations? To even consider that a man as open and frank as Beethoven evidently was, could maintain an affair with a friend’s wife, and then share their roof with her and her husband (and child and maid) only a few days after such a passionate interlude….. Well, ---- it is a scenario simply unthinkable. In Beethoven’s unsent love letter to his ‘Immortal Beloved’ he wrote: My angel, my all, my own self — only a few words today, and those in pencil (with yours)… Can our … MALTZ: Especially a married woman, I imagine. Anyway, what is real beyond any doubt is that the composer really loved a particular woman very much, and that he loved her for a long time. I think she had this attraction. Who was Beethoven’s Immortal Beloved, the unknown woman mentioned in a passionate letter discovered after Beethoven’s death? And what I've been doing recently is watching all these YouTube stories. When Schindler first met Beethoven, the composer explained the meaning behind a new sonata, and many years later, it turned out to be reflective of events mentioned in the “immortal beloved” letter. It is like looking once again in the wrong place. Written in the summer of 1812 from the spa town of Teplice, the letter has generated a great deal of speculation and … And I also found another letter from Therese to Josephine. MALTZ: Today's cake is a Schoko-Mousse Herz, or chocolate mousse heart. And so when the letter to the Immortal Beloved, dated July 6th only mentions the trip between Prague and Teplitz where Beethoven was writing this letter. Which woman is entitled to this title? Besides all the work he is known for, the composer once wrote a famous love letter to a nameless beloved, and the movie tries to find out who this beloved was--not easy, as Beethoven has had many women in his life. What is your view about this? Who is this Immortal Beloved? Following Beethoven's death in 1827, an undelivered letter in his hand addressed to "Immortal Beloved" is discovered. This question has obsessed people for almost 200 years. STEBLIN: Well, I mean, what a scandal. She even applied for a pass to go to Italy with him and the children and so on. And I had found a letter from Charlotte, the youngest sister who had just gotten married and – this is in 1807 – where she's warning Josephine don't be alone with Beethoven. if (document.links[i].href.indexOf("/recommended/") != -1) { And so Therese certainly spent the summer of 1812 taking care of the children in a villa in Hucking, and so where was Josephine? So this was late 1819 and, exactly at that point in Beethoven's conversation books, someone is asking him and writing out, ‘You talk so much about the woman that her husband is going to suspect that the child among his children that has musical talent is your child.’ I mean this is great proof. My bosom is full, to tell you much — there are moments when I find that speech is nothing at all. Immortal Beloved refers to a 10-page unsent love letter found in Beethoven’s estate following his death in 1827. In Beethoven's estate there is a letter that allows science and art to be speculated. In any case, if one day this great mystery were to be solved by an indisputable proof, would we find our appreciation of the works of Beethoven and of the man, himself changed? Who, among the scores of women that Beethoven seduced, was his Immortal Beloved? You have the same sort of wording in these earlier love letters and the letter to the Immortal Beloved where he says, ‘you know I have been faithful to you that no other woman can...’, MALTZ: To clarify for those who don't speak German, please explain the significance of Beethoven referring to Josephine as 'du' instead of the formal 'Sie. And so you have these letters that turned up, and the language is very close to what Beethoven used in the letter to the Immortal Beloved – calls her, my angel, my all. STEBLIN: Well, the letter itself is one of the most passionate letters that anyone has ever written and certainly the most passionate by a composer. These were requirements that Beethoven himself “joked” about on some occasion. First Question: When was the letter written? Welcome to Classical Cake, the podcast where we discuss topics relating to Viennese classical music while enjoying one of Vienna's delicious cakes. Dr. Steblin, I would like to thank you personally for your research. Therefore, a total of 10 pages make up the Immortal Beloved letter. Your faithfulLudwig Monday evening, 6 JulyYou suffer, you, my dearest creature. And just recently the business manager of the Beethoven House in Bonn, Malte Böcker, wanted to have all of my correspondence with this Gesundheitsamt because, in the end, it was sort of like… well, who's going to pay for this? As I say, you can't at this point determine fatherhood, but maybe there are other ways. As baptisms customarily took place the day following birth consensus is that the world’s greatest composer was born December 16, 1770. Final scene from the movie "Inmortal beloved" about Beethoven's life. Beethoven is played by Gary Oldman, one of the finest actors around. And he talks about his love for her and that he's won her heart and that she will make him more productive in his compositions and that she knows he's faithful to her and no other woman can win his heart. Not easy as Beethoven has had many women in his life. . This letter was found in Beethoven's estate along with the Heiligenstadt Testament, and it ended up in Schindler's possession. Beethoven after his death left a letter addressed to his "immortal beloved," with no hint as to who that person was. The Beethoven Immortal Beloved letter was found after Beethoven's death at the same time as "Heiligenstadt's Testament" is made up of two double pages, written on both sides, (8 pages), of about 200 x 238 mm and on a single sheet of about 201 x 119 mm both sides. Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. Finding the answer required cross-referencing 200-year-old letters, diaries, memoirs, as well as other documents to find clues. It is evident that they were looking for clues in the wrong places to find the identity of his Immortal Beloved. Good night — as I am taking the waters, I must go to bed. And these DNA studies… well, if 50% of Minona's bones come from Estonia, well then Stackelberg is the father, but if 50% come from Bonn, well then that would prove it. What do we know about Josephine and why would Beethoven have been so enraptured by her? Beethoven is buried there as well, of course. Woven into the story is Jessica Duchen’s favoured theory (supported by many other scholars) as to the identity of the woman addressed as ‘Immortal Beloved’ in Beethoven’s letter. Canst thou change it, that thou are not entirely mine, I not entirely thine? When a cryptic letter from musical genius Ludwig van Beethoven turned up shortly after his death, it started one of history's most compelling romantic mysteries. In 1795, 1801 and 1807, biographers know the whereabouts and activities of the composer. MALTZ: Let's get to the evidence you discovered. Was it never sent? And these are love letters from Beethoven to Josephine that he wrote between about 1804 and 1809 – this was the period after Deym had died. document.links[i].href += "?js=yes"; It is quite astonishing to see how much thought and speculation the Immortal Beloved letter has provoked. In these letters, Beethoven uses the informal, familiar 'you' to address his (Immortal Beloved. Can our love persist otherwise than through sacrifices, than by not demanding everything? STEBLIN: Years ago, a Berlin film crew wanted to make a film with me holding a shovel at her grave. This question is taken further by Heiligenstadt's theory: we are in the presence of a desperate man, who is writing his final testament, he thinks, to put an end to his days. And all the people, all these scholars in the States and in England and Germany who claim that Josephine cannot be the Immortal Beloved. MALTZ: You mentioned Deym had died in 1804. MALTZ: And this would explain how in the fall, Beethoven returning to Vienna, sees a happily-married Josephine with Stackelberg and writes, “Auf diese Art mit 'St' geht alles zu Grunde.”, STEBLIN: That's right. This date is the one most widely accepted today. It's actually the first entry. What is the evidence that this encounter took place and what clues place Josephine in Prague at this time? 6 July, morningMy angel, my all, my own self — only a few words today, and that too with pencil (with yours) — only till tomorrow is my lodging definitely fixed. It comes from Fanny Giannatasio del Rio in September of 1816 when she wrote down a snippet of a conversation she overheard between Beethoven and her father on a walk in Baden. And remaining frustrated. Art is something related to the soul, to the Sacred, to the Divine. The echoes of this love are listened along the years, in so much of his musical works. MALTZ: What motivated your search for Beethoven's Immortal Beloved? The Immortal Beloved (German "Unsterbliche Geliebte") is the addressee of a love letter which composer Ludwig van Beethoven wrote on 6–7 July 1812 in Teplitz. What are your thoughts about a DNA test? She was now running this museum and he continued to give her lessons. Well, the emperor was in Prague on July 1st and so I think that she wanted to try to solve these financial problems by speaking with the emperor and speaking with relatives of her husband. Oh, God, look into beautiful Nature and compose your mind to the inevitable. But, she was already in her eighties and died soon after. Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827) was a German composer and pianist, who is arguably the defining figure in the history of Western music. And you found something curious about this ‘St’, STEBLIN: His 'St' looks very much like an 'A' and Gräffer, who was the copyist, if he just saw this one initial cipher? The men just fell for her. What longing in tears for you — You — my Life — my All — farewell. Melodious Heart 15,993 views. This biography of Ludwig von Beethoven (Gary Oldman) builds its narrative around an actual letter found after his death, addressed only to the composer's "immortal beloved." 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